Well, you don't get the feeling that he has thought of anything other than himself at any given time. Certainly he was very open with me, accessible with me, and then he started to talk. Did he ever listen to me for one second? I never got that feeling. He just talks at you. ‘Blah blah blah blah blah blah. I'm great. I'm great. I'm great. I'm great.’ And then he sort of says, ‘And you're great, too. And I'm really great.’ It's like that. Any conversation with him is, not to overuse the word surreal, but it's surreal.